THOR: RAGNAROK Spoiler-Filled Discussion and Possible Connections to AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR

THOR: RAGNAROK is finally here in U.S. theaters! Last week it opened in several International markets and our MCU Correspondent Nick Whitney saw it over in the U.K. — click here to read his SPOILER-FREE review — and then DailySuperHero.com founder Daniel Wolf saw it earlier this week, on Monday, for his local press screener.

The two decided to have a back-and-forth discussion of many spoiler-y things Ragnarok and here's their discussion... SPOILER ALERT! ahead...

NICK WHITNEY: Going into this film I had seen precisely one Taika Waititi film, Hunt for the Wilderpeople, which I absolutely loved. How familiar with his work were you before seeing the film and how well of a fit do you think he was for THOR: RAGNAROK now you've seen the film?

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DANIEL WOLF: I have never seen his previous work but have heard tremendous things about his films. After seeing Ragnarok, I need to get more familiar immediately.

I would say Ragnarok is a game changer in more than one way, what is the most important change this movie has made in the MCU moving forward?

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NW: Though THOR: RAGNAROK energised the character, in the same way CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE WINTER SOLDIER did for Cap, for me, the biggest takeaway was the consequences of this film. The hitherto mentioned worries of the film being too light-hearted put aside, Ragnarok has the highest stakes and gravest consequences of any Marvel movie to date. Odin dies. Volstagg dies. Fandral dies. Very unceremoniously, yet brutally. Hogun manages to last a little longer, but he still dies. Pretty much the entire Asgardian military is wiped out. Asgard is blown up!

Thor, after five movies, finally becomes King of his now space faring people, headed toward Earth. And he's minus an eye! This is a film where the good guys technically win! Ahead of AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR, Ragnaork served to show that we shouldn't take things for granted. Sci-fi has often used the trope of destroying an alien world over Earth, seeing as that's where so many stories are still actually set, to establish a world ending threat, so the destruction of Asgard should, hopefully, go to show that the Earth isn't safe.

Speaking of the eye, how did you feel about Marvel keeping that stuff hidden in the trailers? You saw the Infinity War footage at D23 and presumably didn't notice his eye out then, so it goes to show Marvel still have a few surprises and tricks up their sleeves right?

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DW: So much death... it is Hela, the Goddess of Death, so it should have been expected going into this movie and I think you're totally right about THOR: RAGNAROK preparing Marvel Studios fans, and moviegoers, for a much bigger death(s) coming in AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR, or in AVENGERS 4, or maybe in both.

About Thor's eye: I was a bit shocked Marvel Studios took his eye. Bravo to them for keeping this a big secret and not leaking out. In the trailers, they definitely had some misdirection by having both of Thor's eyes in several key moments when he did not have it in the final cut of the movie. And he most definitely had both of his eyes in the AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR footage I saw at Disney's D23 Expo over the summer. A part of me wonders if this was their plan all along, of if they changed this in re-shoots. Similar to how in the first teaser we see Hela in an alley destroying Thor's hammer, but in the theatrical version this is done in a field.

Regarding Thor finally being King of Asgard, albeit without an actual place to call home now, I have two things to mention. First, that ship Asgard's citizens are on definitely reminds me of the spaceship Scuttlebutt [reference link: http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Skuttlebutt], which is Beta Ray Bill's ship. And second, I think at some point before the credits roll in AVENGERS 4, Thor will pass on the mantle to another who is worthy. With Mjolnir now gone (sure, it could/probably will make a return a la the Time Stone, maybe) it seems like we are trending toward the introduction of a new Thor character; and since we've seen Beta Ray Bill's head as one of The Grandmaster's champions on his Tower of Champions — plus the possibility that is really Scuttlebutt — we might be witnessing the beginning of the end of the Chris Hemsworth era since he now needs to lead his people when the dust settles after the climatic battle with Thanos... if Thor survives, of course.

Sorry I rambled a bit here, but what are your thoughts on my speculation? And do you have an alternate theory right now with Thor and his MCU future?

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NW: I don't think that Marvel are looking to replace Thor just yet. I can easily imagine a scenario where Chris Hemsworth does another 3 or so films as Thor, each one potentially being his last until he signs on for the next one, much like Robert Downey Jr. has done over the last few years. But post-Phase 3, post- AVENGERS 4, something has to change. I don't think they're going to have Thor replaced by Bill, as much as I'd like to see it. He's too weird a character. A lead with a horse face? But I do see them setting up a human actor played character taking the mantle. I don't think we'll see Jane Foster in anyway, due to Natalie Portman's relationship with Marvel having ended, but you know who we 100-percent didn't see die in THOR: RAGNAROK? Sif. She could still be out there somewhere, looking for her people, looking for Thor. I just pray her TV schedule lets her shoot something for Avengers 4.

What did you make of the Hulk in Ragnarok and the news that it acts as a sort of act one to a three act arc for the characater, in lieu of actual Hulk films due to those darn rights issues?

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DW: Great point about Lady Sif. I didn’t even consider this until you mentioned her.

I loved Hulk in this movie. I love how they explained his added speech is a result of him being Hulk for two straight years and I love that his role has grown from mindless smashing monster to an evolving story arc for Banner and Hulk battle each other internally. They are going to have to learn to co-exist and this will be a fascinating arc within the next two Avengers movies. A part of me wants Hulk to continue getting smarter but I don’t want a Hulk who can carry on a long conversation. I do want to see Hulk meet Spider-Man, Rocket Raccoon, Groot, Ant-Man, and the others he has yet to meet. Ruffalo as Banner is just so wonderful I can’t imagine just seeing Hulk without Banner showing up here and there. They really do complete each other right now and they are so much fun.

One thing I noticed in this movie is the fun throughout. As a big fan of Guardians and Star Wars, I adored everything the took place on Sakaar especially Jeff Goldblum pretty much being himself as the Grandmaster. I know recent hints have been made that he and the Collector will be sharing some screen time sooner than later, and I fucking can’t wait for those two to try and “out weird” each other.

What are you looking forward to in the coming Avengers movies based on events that happened in Ragnarok?

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NW: Ok, well I presume that ship at the end of THOR: RAGNAROK was Thanos right? I haven't had a chance to compare it to shots of Chitauri vessels from THE AVENGERS but it has to be Thanos and/or Black Order, right?

Loki was warned that if he failed Thanos there would be a price to pay and I think this is that price. Whether or not the Asgardians feel Thanos' wrath or not, I don't know, but Thanos counted on Loki securing the Tesseract, even going so far as to give him the Mind Stone in that sceptre. His gamble didn't pay off and he ended up with less Infinity Stones than he started. But, when Loki was in Odin's treasure room, he did stop briefly at the Tesseract. I wouldn't put it past Loki to have pocketed the thing, knowing full well he could use it as a bargaining chip with Thanos. Will he use it to spare the Asgardians? Or will they have just escaped the destruction of their world only to die at the hands of the Mad Titan? That's what I'm excited for. Plus, further down the line I really hope they do make it to Earth.

How about you, having seen the AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR footage, how do you think Thor is going to be following the events of Ragnarok, especially considering that his people's safety has to be his top priority?

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DW: I immediately thought... "OH SHIT, that's Thanos' ship!" during the first credits scene. It has to be him and the Black Order. I also think Loki totally took the Tesseract when he walked by it before giving new life to Surtur at the end of Ragnarok. So I agree that he will use it as a bargaining chip with Thanos, and perhaps you're right, to save all the Asgardians. Although I do think Loki will team-up with Thanos at some point in either AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR or AVENGERS 4 since he is in fact the God of Mischief and he can't resist the urge to be bad.

Thor will do everything in his power to save his people now. He is their King, finally, offically, which brings me to the thought that he could be the one who offers Loki and the Tesseract to Thanos to save his people. And once they are safe he, and Banner/Hulk, then go to join the Avengers and puts Heimdall in charge of the remaining Asgardians, as he was doing during Ragnarok.

Speaking of Heimdall, I was certain he was either going to die or he was going to be the Soul Stone. There are theories online about how he can see all the souls, plus his eyes are the final Infinity Stone color that is missing. Maybe Thanos is the one who sees Heimdall is the Soul Stone, but I really don't know. Maybe you have a better theory about what/where the Soul Stone is?

Some people have been saying they don't like the brighter tone, fun and humor in THOR: RAGNAROK. I totally disagree and think the franchise and character needed this sort of a "soft reboot" really bad. In some of his comic book adventures, things are bright, funny, and weird... I mean... it is a fantasy character and I was so happy to see him explore the cosmos. To open it up more now that is seems apparent that James Gunn will be taking over as the overseer of the MCU after AVENGERS 4 in a similar role that Joss Whedon and the Russos have had with the studio.

I'm gone on long enough and I guess we can consider all of what I just said as my final thoughts. So you're turn... let's hear your final thoughts on THOR: RAGNAROK and it's ramifications moving forward.

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NW: I personally don't want to speculate on the location of the final Infinity Stone, because AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR is meant to be all about Thanos getting them, I feel Marvel will have some surprises up their sleeves.

And on the subject of tone, I loved THOR: RAGNAROK, it felt like a Jack Kirby comic come to life but I will say some of the jokes fell flat to me (and the audience I saw it with). This is just something that's going to happen when you're firing off a joke every 60 seconds, they can't all land. But that is the tiniest of niggles. I thought it was hilarious most of the time, just saying I can see how some people might not have liked it. You can't fault the sets, colour, music and other tone setting things though. The Sakaar section of the film was a masterpiece in comic book adaptation. I'll be seeing a couple of times more for sure. It's easily Top 5 MCU for me, and considering this is their 17th film, that's some doing.